Stronger beetle gearbox?

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Stronger beetle gearbox?

Postby NickV » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:51 pm

Hi all,
We currently trial a Skoda Estelle in hill climbs {Lands End trial, Exeter etc]
It's got T3 VW suspension, a T2 gearbox [strengthened internals], pinto with twin webers.

We are thinking of switching to a Beetle [means we are not in the modified class which leads to trickier hill re-starts]
[also not as ugly as that Estelle :D ]
Question is what is the strongest beetle gearbox, or are they they same in the later models? [ we will probably be running a 1600].
Are T2 gearboxes stronger, will they fit??
Lower gearing is not a problem as we will be hill climbing...

BAsically trying to get a feel/idea of what's what, [all I know about is the GT Beetle box which had a higher top gear...so not really suitable unless its stronger which I doubt?]
We may have someone do some nternal work , so am thinking about best base to start from

Any thoughts appreciated

Cheers

Nick
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Postby GBHgpJON » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:40 pm

Trekker box's have lower ratios than beetles........
My nephew Gazapc found this handy, on Simms Hill.....didn't get to the top, but beat all the other Baja's on distance......
IRS or SA??
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Postby muddy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:19 am

When I finally get around to swopping boxes out of my splitty there'll be a box and some reduction boxes lying on the garage floor...get some extra ground clearance too... :)

No idea if any of the trials boys use them..( Istick to 2 wheels for off road fun :lol: )
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Re: Stronger beetle gearbox?

Postby Beetlebank » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:02 am

Hi Nick,

Unfortunately the stronger gearboxes are the ones with the higher final drive ratios (it is the diff that becomes stronger; the rest of the gearbox is much the same). Therefore the 3.875 (1303s) is the srongest and the 4.375 (1200) is the weakest with the 4.125 (1300) inbetween. The T2 box is considerably beefier than the Beetle box so is a better starting point, but only 2 final drive ratios to choose from and a smaller choice of aftermarket gearsets.

Unless you are going for a monster engine, or forced induction, a stock T2 box will take anything you can throw at it and a stock Beetle box is good for around 150bhp. You could consider an early Porsche box (915) which good for 250bhp but expensive and quite long. I have heard of certain old Renault gearboxes being useable but have no detailed knowledge of this conversion.

Cheers, Carl.
Have nothing on your VW that you do not know will make it go faster, or believe to be beautiful.

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Re: Stronger beetle gearbox?

Postby NickV » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:23 am

Beetlebank wrote:Hi Nick,

Unfortunately the stronger gearboxes are the ones with the higher final drive ratios (it is the diff that becomes stronger; the rest of the gearbox is much the same). Therefore the 3.875 (1303s) is the srongest and the 4.375 (1200) is the weakest with the 4.125 (1300) inbetween. The T2 box is considerably beefier than the Beetle box so is a better starting point, but only 2 final drive ratios to choose from and a smaller choice of aftermarket gearsets.

Unless you are going for a monster engine, or forced induction, a stock T2 box will take anything you can throw at it and a stock Beetle box is good for around 150bhp. You could consider an early Porsche box (915) which good for 250bhp but expensive and quite long. I have heard of certain old Renault gearboxes being useable but have no detailed knowledge of this conversion.

Cheers, Carl.


Interesting. It won't be a monster engine as we want to be a lower trialing class. [although with hill launches obviously more strength is better]
You've summed that up nicely.
If we were to find a t2 diff are they a fairly straightforward swap?
Thanks everyone, no doubt will have more questons about this project
Nick
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Re: Stronger beetle gearbox?

Postby Beetlebank » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:00 pm

NickV wrote:Interesting. It won't be a monster engine as we want to be a lower trialing class. [although with hill launches obviously more strength is better]
You've summed that up nicely.
If we were to find a t2 diff are they a fairly straightforward swap?
Thanks everyone, no doubt will have more questons about this project
Nick



Hi Nick,

The diffs are not interchangeable between T1 and T2 boxes, and to change the diff ratio in either box is a complete rebuild as the pinion shaft is also part of the gear carrier shaft. Strength-wise you are unlikely to have the traction to hurt even a standard T1 box in trialling. As an example of its strength, an old friend from up-country used to run his 2007 T1 engine on a stock 1300 box in his 1962 Beetle. This would do consistent low 15sec. 1/4 miles, which equates to 0-60mph in about 6.5 secs, and I know he did over 140 hard 1/4 mile runs at Santa Pod with not a glitch.

If you did happen to break a gearbox you would find low ratio Beetle boxes (4.375/4.125) very much easier to get hold of and much, much cheaper than any T2 box or the 3.875 T1 box, as the latter in its IRS form is the one favoured for Split Screen conversions.

One thing that should be pointed out is that the overall final drive ratios of the 4.125 and 3.875 are virtually identical as a different 4th gear set was used, however you do get the higher 1st/2nd/3rd gearing with the 3.875 box. I'm guessing that in trialling you would never get out of 2nd on a section. Are you planning to go swing axle or IRS?

Cheers, Carl.
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Postby NickV » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:51 am

Very interesting, Carl, amazed they can take so much power!
I imagine it will be a swing axle.
Sounds like the T1 box is the way to go!
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